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	<title>Comments on: Hello Joyent!</title>
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	<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/</link>
	<description>Views on software from Bryan Cantrill&#039;s deck chair</description>
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		<title>By: JAF</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>JAF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 04:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-936</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one who is sad to see a good hacker become a manager. Hope this is not Peter&#039;s principle at work. Good luck in your new role, Bryan. I will miss seeing you create something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who is sad to see a good hacker become a manager. Hope this is not Peter&#8217;s principle at work. Good luck in your new role, Bryan. I will miss seeing you create something.</p>
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		<title>By: William Louth</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>William Louth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-924</guid>
		<description>I had hoped you would have looked at the references provided and formed an opinion that was based on serious consideration of how we might marry both of our works in the context of cloud computing. 

I have been traveling around California for the last month meeting various vendors up and down the stack trying to convince them of the benefit of activity based costing &amp; metering in the cloud. It is not exactly an easy task especially as it has far reaching consequences up and down stack, across process boundaries &amp; across cloud service interactions.

Maybe the listing of a dtrace benchmark on the site was not favorable to initiating such discussions between us but bear in mind this is in relation to the integration offered by Java runtimes which fortunately do represent a very big part of todays and future enterprise and cloud platforms.

I would love the opportunity to discuss in person how OpenCore explicit metering model could be served by adhoc query diagnostic solutions which can offer up meters (thread counters) which can then be tied to activities closer to the application &amp; business context.

Our plan for OpenCore is to push for standardization w/ language &amp; runtime mappings as well as integration on the wire for metered cloud service interactions.

This is my last week in the bay area but maybe there is still time for us to meet in person and discuss the pro&#039;s and con&#039;s of both of our designs &amp; works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had hoped you would have looked at the references provided and formed an opinion that was based on serious consideration of how we might marry both of our works in the context of cloud computing. </p>
<p>I have been traveling around California for the last month meeting various vendors up and down the stack trying to convince them of the benefit of activity based costing &amp; metering in the cloud. It is not exactly an easy task especially as it has far reaching consequences up and down stack, across process boundaries &amp; across cloud service interactions.</p>
<p>Maybe the listing of a dtrace benchmark on the site was not favorable to initiating such discussions between us but bear in mind this is in relation to the integration offered by Java runtimes which fortunately do represent a very big part of todays and future enterprise and cloud platforms.</p>
<p>I would love the opportunity to discuss in person how OpenCore explicit metering model could be served by adhoc query diagnostic solutions which can offer up meters (thread counters) which can then be tied to activities closer to the application &amp; business context.</p>
<p>Our plan for OpenCore is to push for standardization w/ language &amp; runtime mappings as well as integration on the wire for metered cloud service interactions.</p>
<p>This is my last week in the bay area but maybe there is still time for us to meet in person and discuss the pro&#8217;s and con&#8217;s of both of our designs &amp; works.</p>
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		<title>By: bmc</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>bmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-923</guid>
		<description>William,

Correct me if I&#039;m wrong but isn&#039;t your &lt;strike&gt;free advertisement&lt;/strike&gt; comment referring to a technology that is specific to Java and Java-based applications?  If not, are there public clouds that currently use this infrastructure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William,</p>
<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but isn&#8217;t your <strike>free advertisement</strike> comment referring to a technology that is specific to Java and Java-based applications?  If not, are there public clouds that currently use this infrastructure?</p>
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		<title>By: William Louth</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-921</link>
		<dc:creator>William Louth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-921</guid>
		<description>Actually there are many companies interested in solving software execution monitoring &amp; management in the cloud. 

Enterprise Software Resource Metering &amp; Application Performance Metric Monitoring
http://opencore.jinspired.com/?page_id=38

Before you left Oracle I had requested a meeting with Oracle product management to explore how OpenCore&#039;s activity based costing &amp; metering runtime could be integrated with dtrace which I see offering unlimited meter creation complimenting OpenCore&#039;s application activity analysis.

Unfortunately no one responded.

You should check out the following cloud related articles.
http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/category/cloud-computing/

You are right that no many of the cloud providers are interested in offering insight into the performance, capacity, and cost mgmt of cloud services and applications. But that will change and hopefully our push for a standard metering interface on the wire will pay off in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually there are many companies interested in solving software execution monitoring &amp; management in the cloud. </p>
<p>Enterprise Software Resource Metering &amp; Application Performance Metric Monitoring<br />
<a href="http://opencore.jinspired.com/?page_id=38" rel="nofollow">http://opencore.jinspired.com/?page_id=38</a></p>
<p>Before you left Oracle I had requested a meeting with Oracle product management to explore how OpenCore&#8217;s activity based costing &amp; metering runtime could be integrated with dtrace which I see offering unlimited meter creation complimenting OpenCore&#8217;s application activity analysis.</p>
<p>Unfortunately no one responded.</p>
<p>You should check out the following cloud related articles.<br />
<a href="http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/category/cloud-computing/" rel="nofollow">http://williamlouth.wordpress.com/category/cloud-computing/</a></p>
<p>You are right that no many of the cloud providers are interested in offering insight into the performance, capacity, and cost mgmt of cloud services and applications. But that will change and hopefully our push for a standard metering interface on the wire will pay off in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: bmc</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>bmc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-918</guid>
		<description>Ananth,

Interesting point about node.js &quot;feeling right&quot; to the Unix programmer.  I absolutely agree with you, and I think it&#039;s a result of the same kind of minimalism that we saw with Unix. (And after all, if you agree with my potentially absurd claim that JavaScript is the dynamic C that K&amp;R would have intended, it&#039;s not much of a leap to assert that node.js is its Unix.) I have been interested to see some of the arguments against node.js (including &lt;a href=&quot;http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a patronizing and relatively content-less screed from Alex Payne&lt;/a&gt;) that essentially amount to complaining that the model doesn&#039;t work (or might not work) under all circumstances.  To me, this seems to be a classic &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;strawman&lt;/a&gt;:  I don&#039;t see Ryan or anyone else making the argument that all software should be rewritten in node.js -- just that the node.js model seems to be one that works for one (large) class of systems...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ananth,</p>
<p>Interesting point about node.js &#8220;feeling right&#8221; to the Unix programmer.  I absolutely agree with you, and I think it&#8217;s a result of the same kind of minimalism that we saw with Unix. (And after all, if you agree with my potentially absurd claim that JavaScript is the dynamic C that K&amp;R would have intended, it&#8217;s not much of a leap to assert that node.js is its Unix.) I have been interested to see some of the arguments against node.js (including <a href="http://al3x.net/2010/07/27/node.html" rel="nofollow">a patronizing and relatively content-less screed from Alex Payne</a>) that essentially amount to complaining that the model doesn&#8217;t work (or might not work) under all circumstances.  To me, this seems to be a classic <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman" rel="nofollow">strawman</a>:  I don&#8217;t see Ryan or anyone else making the argument that all software should be rewritten in node.js &#8212; just that the node.js model seems to be one that works for one (large) class of systems&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ananth Shrinivas</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>Ananth Shrinivas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 02:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-917</guid>
		<description>As a former {OpenSolaris Engineer, DTrace user} and a current {Cloud Engineer, node.js user},  I cannot be more thrilled to hear that you have arrived at the right place.

The abstraction offered by node.js &quot;feels just right&quot; to a Unix Programmer. Using libev, v8 is a pragmatic choice for performance.

Arguments against event based systems, such as:
http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/full_papers/vonbehren/vonbehren_html/
seem academic. And your arrival on this scene, I hope, will firmly set a clear course for high performance unix server code.

Good Luck with everything !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former {OpenSolaris Engineer, DTrace user} and a current {Cloud Engineer, node.js user},  I cannot be more thrilled to hear that you have arrived at the right place.</p>
<p>The abstraction offered by node.js &#8220;feels just right&#8221; to a Unix Programmer. Using libev, v8 is a pragmatic choice for performance.</p>
<p>Arguments against event based systems, such as:<br />
<a href="http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/full_papers/vonbehren/vonbehren_html/" rel="nofollow">http://www.usenix.org/events/hotos03/tech/full_papers/vonbehren/vonbehren_html/</a><br />
seem academic. And your arrival on this scene, I hope, will firmly set a clear course for high performance unix server code.</p>
<p>Good Luck with everything !</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Observation Deck » Hello Joyent! -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Observation Deck » Hello Joyent! -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 02:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-915</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeff Waugh, Jim Pick, konobi, Fitzage, Linda Derezinski and others. Linda Derezinski said: RT @konobi: Bryan Cantrill on why he chose to join joyent: http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jeff Waugh, Jim Pick, konobi, Fitzage, Linda Derezinski and others. Linda Derezinski said: RT @konobi: Bryan Cantrill on why he chose to join joyent: <a href="http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/" rel="nofollow">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Twitted by fitzage</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-914</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by fitzage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-914</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was Twitted by fitzage [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by fitzage [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan on Hello&#8217;ing Joyent and node.js &#171; Joyeur</title>
		<link>http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2010/07/30/hello-joyent/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan on Hello&#8217;ing Joyent and node.js &#171; Joyeur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/?p=210#comment-913</guid>
		<description>[...] Source    This entry was written by jason and posted on July 30, 2010 at 1:23 pm and filed under Link List. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.    &#171; Welcome&#160;Layerboom! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Source    This entry was written by jason and posted on July 30, 2010 at 1:23 pm and filed under Link List. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.    &laquo; Welcome&nbsp;Layerboom! [...]</p>
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